Pension reforms sweep, except San Francisco

Voters approved seven ballot measures Tuesday aimed at curbing or reducing local public pension costs. Only the rejection of a measure in labor-friendly San Francisco averted a clean sweep.

Public employee unions opposed the measures, often supported by business groups. Officials who voted to put the measures on the ballot, or led the campaigns, risked the wrath of powerful unions in their own future election campaigns.

The reformer victories came amid national concern that the growing cost of taxpayer-guaranteed public employee retirement benefits is eating up government budgets, threatening funding for other programs.

Retirement costs jumped sharply after the stock market crash two years ago. Big holes were punched in pension investment funds expected to pay most future obligations. Now government employer costs are going up to cover the losses.

A number of unions have agreed to cost-cutting measures. Workers will pay more toward their pensions, and new hires get lower pensions. The courts say pensions promised current workers can’t be cut.

In what may be a first, Bakersfield voters bypassed collective bargaining and approved a lower pension formula for new city hires. Vice Mayor Zack Scrivner led the drive for Measure D after several years of impasse with police and firefighter unions.

A Menlo Park initiative reinforces a lower formula for new hires imposed by the city council, preventing future changes without voter approval. Citizens gathered signatures to place Measure L on the ballot, which does not apply to police.

Measures that authorize elected officials to give new employees lower pensions, without specifying a formula, were among dual pension measures approved by voters in San Jose and Riverside County.

San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed led the drive for Measure W, allowing lower benefits for new hires. He said city general fund revenue increased 21 percent during the last decade, while the average cost per employee went up 87 percent.

Many of the cost-cutting pension measures and agreements rollback a wave of pension increases a decade ago, when investment funds were flush. The California Public Employees Retirement System led the way with SB 400, an increase for state workers.

“They thought the stock market would keep going up forever,” Reed said of CalPERS projections that earnings would pay for the benefit increase. “It’s the greatest financial blunder in the history of California — ten times worse than Enron.”

San Jose voters also approved Measure V, limiting action by arbitrators when contract talks deadlock. San Jose is one of about 20 cities with “binding arbitration” allowing an outsider to pick either the management or labor offer, but no compromise.

Critics say the arbitrator usually picks the labor offer, a tendency that gives labor more clout at the bargaining table. Voters in bankrupt Vallejo went a step beyond the limits in the San Jose measure, eliminating binding arbitration last June.

The heated campaign in San Jose led to a confrontation between Councilman Pierluigi Oliverio and off-duty police and firefighters, who followed him to his home after he was seen removing signs opposing the measures.

Oliverio said the signs were improperly placed in traffic medians. A video on YouTube shows his confrontation with a police captain and the signs being removed from the trunk of his car.

In Riverside County, where all five supervisors were said to support a plan to lower pensions for new hires, deputy sheriffs placed Measure L on the ballot, which requires a vote of the people to lower retirement benefits for safety workers.

The supervisors responded with a counter proposal, Measure M, which allows the supervisors to lower retirement benefits, while requiring a vote of the people to increase benefits.

Both measures were approved by voters. But the measure backed by the supervisors got more votes, so it will be the one that takes effect, the Riverside Press-Enterprise reported.

Dual pension measures placed on the ballot by the Redding city council, non-binding advisories, also were approved by wide margins.

Measure A calls for employees to pay their share of the annual contribution to CalPERS. As is the case in a number of cities, Redding currently pays the employee share, 9 percent of pay for police and firefighters and 7 percent of pay for other workers.

Measure B calls for tying Redding retiree health care to the number of years the employee works for the city, beginning with five years to become eligible for retiree health care.

Voters in Pacific Grove approved Measure R, limiting city contributions to CalPERS to 10 percent of pay. A legal challenge is expected. City officials have talked about leaving CalPERS, but paying off pension debt would be costly.

Carlsbad voters approved Proposition G, requiring a public vote to increase pension benefits. Similar measures have been approved in recent years in San Diego and Orange County, modeled after a century-old law in San Francisco.

Voters in San Francisco rejected Proposition B, an increase in worker pension contributions from 1 to 9 percent of pay, depending on the bargaining unit. Employees would have paid 50 percent of dependent health care costs, up from 25 percent.

San Francisco Public Defender Jeff Adachi, after cuts in his office that provides attorneys for the poor, led the drive for the measure. He argued that city pension and health costs are expected to exceed $1.1 billion in 2012, up from $776 million last year.

The battle among Democrats in the famously liberal city drew national attention. A prominent early backer of Proposition B, financier Warren Helman, withdrew his support before the election, calling for negotiations to solve the pension problem.

In San Diego, voters rejected a half-cent sales tax increase Mayor Jerry Sanders said was needed to avoid deep police and fire cuts. Though not primarily a pension reform, Proposition D was pension related.

Much of the city’s budget problem stems from raising pension benefits while cutting pension contributions not once but twice, causing the national media to dub San Diego “Enron by the sea.”

Proposition D would only have taken effect if 10 conditions were met, seven of them pension related. A leading opponent of the measure, Councilman Carl DeMaio, plans to propose a five-year budget plan that includes pension changes.

Last week, the Los Angeles City Council voted 13-to-0 to put a measure on the ballot March 8 that would give new police and firefighters lower pensions. A business group said the cut would not produce enough savings

The pension cost this year for all Los Angeles employees is $580 billion. Some alarmed officials estimate that the cost could nearly double to $1 billion in the next three years.

The new governor elected this week, Jerry Brown, issued an eight-point pension reform plan for state workers during his campaign.

The Schwarzenegger administration has since negotiated agreements for most state workers on two of the points: lower benefits for new hires and increased employee contributions.

The candidate Brown defeated, Meg Whitman, proposed switching all state workers except police and firefighters to 401(k)-style individual invest plans. She said she would take the issue to voters if necessary.

Reporter Ed Mendel covered the Capitol in Sacramento for nearly three decades, most recently for the San Diego Union-Tribune. More stories are at Posted 4 Nov 10

94 Responses to “Pension reforms sweep, except San Francisco”

  1. Joe Pensioner Says:

    You can all go fuck yourself for trying to lower pensions for Public employees, especially safety related. We should not be giving up any concessions on pensions that we’ve earned over the years and start going backwards. Any attempt will come back to bite you in the ass. When you idiots reduce pensions and take away a major recruitment tool for safety employees, you will find less and less people will be to do these dangerous that will have a lousy pension that makes it not worth risking your life for. You people will be the ultimate victim when you call 911 and there’s no police or firefighters to respond. The old saying…Be careful what you ask for.

  2. Jack Taxpayer Says:

    Well “Joe Pensioner,” Jack Taxpayer here, and if you think it’s ok for traffic cops and guys who drive a fire truck to make $200K per year (on average when you include the cost of funding their retirement benefits), you are delusional. And your profane invective illustrates quite well why people with badges should not be allowed to belong to unions. You guys are supposed to protect us from union thugs, not be union thugs. Nobody is disputing the need to pay a premium to public safety workers in recognition of the risks they take. But you guys are making way, way more than the market rate for what you do, and you are corrupted by it. Unionized public safety employees are a threat to a free society.

  3. Charles Sainte Claire Says:

    Public pensions are in fact a major problem in a budgetary sense and there is no denying it. How to fix it? The US Supreme Court has already ruled in the Heinz case that under ERISA and the Constitutional clause regarding contracts that pensions cannot be “back tinkered.” They are part of a total wage-benefit package that the employee has already earned. In short, it is already the employee’s property. These rights can not be changed retroactively.

    Changing pension formulas going forward is legally questionable, whether by law or negotiating. Changing employee contributions going forward to pensions by contract negotiations appears to be legal. In most States it appears that changing the employee’s share of paying for healthcare can be changed by law, although bargaining would be a wiser choice.
    So, there you have it. You can change health care contributions, pension formulas and of course wages for current employees. In today’s economy public employees would be wise to find some kind of temporary compromise. And in spite of all the disaster scenarios spouted by certain parts of the media and “tail-gunner Joe” politicians the economy will turn back around.

  4. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Dear Jack-off, You sound like the typical idiot that doesn’t have a clue what it’s like to risk your life in the line of duty….another clear cut case of pure jealousy as I’ve heard many times by people that have not earned or have pensions. When the economy was fine, we didn’t hear a “peep” out of you people. The have’s and have not’s. As you sit in your comfortable chair, police & firefighters work 24/7 365 days a week to protect your soft pathetic unappreciative ass and actually deserve a much larger compensation. I assure you and would certainly bet you could not measure up and qualify for such a job. Your probably a pencil pusher in some office building somewhere that watches the world go by and relies only on the 911 button to get help. Better stop and realize where your sorry ass would be without our police and fire and all the other dedicated public servants out there. These services are not free and if think we’re paid too much, I don’t give a rats ass. The Governor, the California Legislature & CalPERS thought enough of us in enhance our benefits in 1999 with AB 400. We sure don’t need your approval. Better be a little more appreciative that we’re out there….apparently you haven’t experienced an emergency like having a gun stuck up your ass in an alley or needed a fireman when your house in burning down. Better get your head out of your ass.

  5. Charles Sainte Claire Says:


    Jack’s comments were meant to be inflammatory. The best response to someone trolling around in the waters is not to bite. He will move on to some other page, perhaps bashing blacks or women or the handicapped.

  6. john moore Says:

    Here in Pacific Grove,we have incurred 80 million dollars in Calpers debt in the last 7 years. That means Pacific Grove will be indebted to Calpers and unable to fund services,like library,FOREVER,even with the enacted pension reform. Citizens are hopefull that the police and fire unions will sue,so that the incredible corruption that took place with the increase to 3@50 can be corrected. Paying off Calpers will be a matter for the bankruptcy court. Payment is impossible–there is not that much real estate equity in the whole city.PG is not alone.Many cities are even worse off.

  7. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Charles, you make a lot more sense that Jack-off above, but are still a little delusional. I hope you are not like Jack-off and really do know what it’s like to risk your life everyday for the citizens of California. Trust me, I do and have earned no more then the proper salary awarded to me by my agency. True enough, the current labor contracts were enhanced in 1999 by AB (Assembly Bill 400), which was passed by the Governor, Legislature and CalPERS. When the economy is strong and peachy, these collective bargaining agreements are no problem. They are not even on the cry babies radar screen. So, here comes the stock market crash of 2008. All these greedy cry babies have lost a big part of their 401K’s and other investments. We, as government employees keep blodding along like the tortoise and the hare. Still employed and doing our jobs while, unfortunately, people have lost their’s. If you think it’s fine to screw over public servants and reduce their pay & retirement benefits just because of a dip in the economy, your sadly mistaken. If and when the economy gets strong again, pensions won’t matter again. My opinion……..get rid of all the illegals that don’t belong here that are draining our system and services and getting everything for free, get rid of all the welfare fraud and lazy people that don’t want to work, just to start with, and there will be plenty of money to pay our dedicated public servants who actually work hard and earned their salaries and pensions by risking their lives everyday for a lot of these people that don’t even appreciate it. See, a simple solution to the problem. If I was Governor, I’d give all State Workers a 20% pay raise and increase their pensions dramatically. Thank God for them.

  8. Joe Pensioner Says:

    John, I got it………….why don’t you cut all Police & Fireman’s pay to …..say $10.00 an hour and reduce their pensions to…….say $1,000 a month in retirement. Will that make you happy? See who apply’s for these jobs at that rate of compensation and ask them to risk their lives everyday and see who you get. It took us years to get where we’re at and you now want us to go backwards and take things away from us while we’re still risking our lives………doesn’t make sense. Apparently you could care less or even fully realize how these people protect us.

  9. Algernon Moncrief Says:



    Obviously, legislators around the country are not quite as sophisticated as their counterparts in Colorado. It has never occurred to them that they could just pass a bill stating “Oh, by the way, we are no longer bound by our contractual pension obligations.” Simplicity itself! This approach makes life much easier in difficult budgetary times, and takes the burden off of GASB, state and local governments, plan sponsors and the SEC!

    Under the Colorado pension “contract breachin’ plan”. . . . . you simply seize vested, accrued, earned, contracted benefits from retirees and pension members (incredibly, with the help of your local union lobbyists . . . . toss those retired union brothers under the bus) until your unfunded pension liabilities are sufficiently reduced to raise your funded ratio. This plan also improves the status of your bonded debt (keepin’ those SEC fellas happy).

    If you’re as brazen as we are in Colorado you claim that your goal is to achieve a 100 percent funded ratio, instead of the 80 percent level that is considered well-funded in the industry. May as well go for the full 100 percent, no one understands all this pension mumbo jumbo out here in the west.

    The 100 percent goal provides lots of wiggle room for unexpected investment shortfalls, or more convenient under-funding in the future. Also, here’s another ingenious provision that we invented. If it happens that God provides you with a lame pension investment staff, they consistently underperform their benchmarks (I estimate that last year we underperformed by about a billion), and accordingly you have an investment loss for the year, no problemo, just state in the bill you enact that retiree contracted benefits will be further cut to accommodate the loss! My guess is that when pension investment staff around the country hear about this sweet no-accountability gig they are going to beat a path to Colorado PERA. Where can I get that kind of a job? To be fair, credit for finding this solution should go to the bright administrators at Colorado PERA. You can imagine how difficult it is psychologically to advocate a course of action that you yourself have earlier declared illegal, (see this excellent Denver Post article.)

    We know it’s burdensome for busy pension administrators (particularly short timers) to have to tell elected officials that they really ought to make their annual required contributions . . . it’s much easier to just let those unfunded liabilities build up year after year after year, until you have a good pile, and then wipe the slate clean with a good contract breachin’!

    Our Colorado PERA pension administrators are straight shooters. They’ve been telling us for a couple years now, “We can’t invest our way out of this.” Now they’re keeping their word . . . by missing their investment performance benchmarks by wide margins.

    Meeting contractual obligations? Performing your fiduciary duty? Acting in a moral fashion? No need to fret about these things. We’ve looked into it in Colorado and dang if these things haven’t been optional all along. Hello state and local governments . . . round up those rascally debt problems and herd ‘em out west to us in Colorado, we’ll fix ‘em right good fer ya!
    (Visit for more info.)

  10. Fake Rex the Wonder Dog! Says:

    You can all go fuck yourself for trying to lower pensions for Public employees, especially safety related. We should not be giving up any concessions on pensions that we’ve earned over the years and start going backwards.
    You NEVER earned them cry baby.

  11. Fake Rex the Wonder Dog! Says:

    Public pensions are in fact a major problem in a budgetary sense and there is no denying it. How to fix it? The US Supreme Court has already ruled in the Heinz case that under ERISA and the Constitutional clause regarding contracts that pensions cannot be “back tinkered.” They are part of a total wage-benefit package that the employee has already earned.
    #1, pesnions that were GIFTED out retroactively have never been ruled legal, by the SCOTUS or anyone else.

    #2, you could freeze public pension in place, and use a different formula going forward-no pension has been “earned” when it is still in the future, there has NEVER been a case stating otherwise.

  12. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    When the economy was fine, we didn’t hear a “peep” out of you people. The have’s and have not’s.

    Another idiot cop with the same old tired lines. There are 1,000 applicants who apply for and could do eithe a cop or FF job, they are semi skilled, blue collar jobs that require NO prior work experiene nor education-except a GED.

    As you sit in your comfortable chair, police & firefighters work 24/7 365 days a week to protect your soft pathetic unappreciative ass and actually deserve a much larger compensation.

    “Deserve”, yeah another hero whining about what they “deserve”, here you go champ, this is your film debut;

    I assure you and would certainly bet you could not measure up and qualify for such a job.
    You have a GED job, ANYONE could do it, even a mental moron like you.

    apparently you haven’t experienced an emergency like having a gun stuck up your ass in an alley or needed a fireman when your house in burning down. Better get your head out of your ass.
    Your skinny butt would be RUNNING as fast as you could in the OPPOSITE direction of any danger hero, get a clue you GED idiot-you have a job that is not even in the top 10 for danger, you are comped in the top 3% in the nation, and haircuts are coming.

    Deal with it hero boy, and stop whining like the baby you are.

  13. Fake SkippingDog Says:

    If you think it’s fine to screw over public servants and reduce their pay & retirement benefits just because of a dip in the economy, your sadly mistaken.
    LOL, we are comping idiots like you $200K per year, and you don’t even know proper grammar= “your” and “you’re” go back to 9th grade and educate yourself.

    To think GED clowns like you think they are entitled to pensions they did not earn nor work for is a direct result of your lack of intelligence.

  14. Fake Rex the Wonder Dog! Says:

    John, I got it………….why don’t you cut all Police & Fireman’s pay to …..say $10.00 an hour and reduce their pensions to…….say $1,000 a month in retirement. Will that make you happy?
    idiots with GED’s are not worth $10 an hour, nor ANY pension at all.

    I would pay you minimum wage with no benefits, that is market rate for your education and skills 🙂

  15. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey dogshit, I can tell you don’t HAVE a pension (spelled pension, not pesnions) and it appears you have dogshit for brains too, because you make no sense at all, on top of not knowing what your talking about. Your probably disgruntled and stuck with your lousy 401k, if anything, earning 2%. In California, employees pay 50% towards their own retirement pensions, with matching funds from the employer, in this case, (The State of California). With our compensation system, we recruit the best in the world. When one retires at 35 years of service, the first 14 years of compensation are actually the employees money, not to mention retirement benefits. That’s why CalPERS is the biggest and best retirement system in the country, if not the world. CalPERS is currently earning 11.3% rate of return, where only 7.75% is needed to fund it’s liability.

  16. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Tsk tsk……Too bad you don’t have a pension. Of course, someone with your caliber, would not….probably more like a rap sheet. They’re really nice and well deserved. I’m guessing your probably just a nobody making a minimum wage somewhere? Let’s hear what an important job you have and how you contribute to society. I’m guessing by the unintelligent way you talk, it’s not something your proud of. With my experience, your dialog is from someone who hates cops and my guess is you have a criminal record. Give me your full name and run a quick check.

  17. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    PRESIDENT OBAMA hit the “nail on the head” when he stated he got a “shellacking”. This should not shock anyone at all- all you had to do was watch the news over the last 18 months. This anger began months ago when the democrats/ “progressives” lost a key election in Virginia, then they lost in New Jersey, and most notable, they lost Ted Kennedy’s seat to a REPUBLICAN!

    Now I know, CALIF loves to think of itself as the “center of the world” and Los Angeles has this “we are so bitchen” attitude- but really wake up people. This is just California and Los Angeles-one state, one city, in a union of states-PERIOD. Voter anger is everywhere in this nation. Monday was a serious victory for Americans who are sick of the policies of Harry Reid, The Wicked Witch of the West Nancy Pelosi, this President, and yes, people like the Mayor in Los Angeles and all the “unions” in CALIF!

    I am a former resident of LA, and ‘native’ Californian, a RETIRED police officer, and I fled the “bankrupt state” for Texas- I gave up on trying to “vote” that “system” better in that state. Tuesday, I voted stick “Tea Party” and GOP- I want the Washington DC “ATM” machine put out of service! I am sick of the Unions, the Teachers who whine, SEIU, and all the others! The message I and others outside CALIF sent to this President and congres is “stop spending”. The “battle” to “retake” our national government is not over- more elections will come up, and more people in Washington WILL BE replaced. The Unions should be worried! In 2012, I intend to join other people, in other states (outside California) in collective effort to make this president a “one term” president and turn him out of office. This is how “democracy” works-we vote- that’s what took place on Tuesday.

    Texas, due to the last census, just received 4 NEW seats in congress for the NEXT election cycle (they will be ‘red’ seats)- California got NONE! As the population of Texas and other states grows-so will our ability to challenge CA’s “liberal” voting practices and spending habits. We can also “challenge” your unions and say “NO!”

    With Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown now in Sacramento, I can only hope he repeats what he did in the 70’s- that should help Texas and other states grow in population and business. His leadership will without a doubt cause more people and companies flee California. Your loss is our gain!

    Calif is the classic example of “big- wasteful-out of control government”. California had better get used to “living within a budget” because people like me are watching the GOP and if they do not stop the ‘ear marks” and waistful spending- we will throw them out also! I and others in this nation do not want our cities and states to become like California, LA, and all the budget mess in your state. WE DO NOT want our cities, communities and states to become LIKE YOU! and we see what is going on in CALIF!

    This election was as much about Nancy Pelosi as it was the policies of this president. I am pleased Pelosi will soon be looking for a “job”-[as we said she would after this election] maybe make YOU can maker her a “Mayor”or send her to Sacramento.

  18. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey John, I guess now that your out of the State, you think it’s safe to “California Bash”. Sorry, it’s still the best State in the union. I’ve been to Texas and I wasn’t impressed at all.

    People hated Harry Reid in Nevada so bad, what did they do?……REELECT HIM, go figure. I agree, at least we got Polosi out of there. Good luck in Texas and wish us luck with “moonbeam”. CalPERS will still your retirement check there.

  19. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    YOU KNOW, in Texas whe have TONS of police and fire fighters- I mean they are ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE. They do the same jobs as those in CAL- the risks in these jobs are basically the same- but these coppers and firemen make about 1/2 of what my peers in CALIF do.

    You don’t see their wives running around in new SUV’s. You don’t see these public servants coming to work and the new Harley, or pulling a big boat behind the NEW 4×4 TRUCK! No, I saw that ALL THE TIME in Los Angeles.

    I dropped out of the LAPPL in 2001 (the LAPD police union) when I realized that my union was corrupt and not working in the best intrest of the members or people of LA.

    People, and Union workers in CA are not only “spoiled” but in many cases WAY OVER PAID COMPAIRED TO OTHER PARTS OF THE NATION.

    Now some will argue, “but it take more to live in CALIFORNIA”- sorry folks! NOT OUR PROBLEM- you can blame that on the California mindset “well this is California- we have to pay more to live in this state”. Again, this is “flawed” thinking.

    I took my pension and LEFT California for Texas-where I now live. I COULD NOT have lived in Calif on it- it simply was not enough due to the INSANE cost of living and Tax out in the brankrupt state. In Texas, I have a bigger home, all the same comforts I had in CA, and I live well. So who lost? The State of CA did-I took my money and left and that means NO TAX MONEY FROM ME and MY MONEY IS SPENT in Texas.

    Wake up and smell the toast people, other people in other states ARE DOING the same dang jobs we do- FOR A WHOLE LOT LESS MONEY AND BENIFITS! In American it is about “getting more for less”-you know, like when we buy ‘gas for our cars’ we always wanna pay less. Why should the public expect any less? That’s what happened Tues- the Voters said, “we want more service for less money”- nothing wrong with that at all. If

    To those who wanna “whine” up above- if your job “sucks” so much. If you don’t like the work-for the pay you are getting; well, WALMART IS TAKING APPLICATIONS! Grow up, NOBDOY EVER SAID THIS WOULD BE ‘FAIR’.

  20. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    @ Joe Pensioner, YOUR THINKING IS WORNG! You say, ” When you idiots reduce pensions and take away a major recruitment tool for safety employees, you will find less and less people will be to do these dangerous that will have a lousy pension that makes it not worth risking your life for. ” This is “scare tactics”.

    Unemployment is at over 9% nationally! In parts of CALIF it is as high as 13%- people need work. Just today, I had a man walk up to me in TEXAS OF ALL DAMN PLACES AND WANT ME TO HELP HIM GET HIRED BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT!

    EVERYBODY is can be replaced- it is a simple as that. This guy I spoke with is making 30,000 a year RIGHT NOW! Hell, the pay and pension benifits in CAL are highly attractive TO PEOPLE IN OTHER STATES WHO MAKE FAR LESS!

    I saw this mindset alot- people in CA think that “we cannot be replaced” or “if they won’t pay us more money nobody will do this job” that’s total BS!

    Long before I was hired in 1984, cops made a lot less money and had fewer benifits- but men and women of courage stepped forward and picked up the hoses and pinned on badges anyway.

    Jack, you are worng and you know it!

  21. Joe Pensioner Says:

    John, are you serious? How can you compare Texas to California. The pacific ocean, beautiful pine trees & scenery. It does cost more to live here, so our salaries & pensions are bigger. That’s why each State has their owns rules. Did you leave your family & grandkids behind when you went to Texas? I could never do that. My whole family is rooted in California and I would never think of abandoning them for my own selfish reasons. Besides, California is still the best State. That’s why everybody lives here. Let’s just hope moonbeam does’nt run them out, like you say.

  22. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Joe, CA’s ‘glory days” have come to an end- it’s that simple. I was born and raised near Modesto, CA. I went to LA to work for LAPD during the Olympic Games of 1984. I WAS AT that “Bank of America” shooting, was run over by cars 3 differnet times. Was working the night of the 1994 earthquake, and was at LAX in 1991 when a Southwest plane crashed-I KNOW what it is “LIKE TO RISK MY LIFE”.

    I got the hell out of that state like 90% of all coppers I know have-“cost of living”. This is NOT ABOUT “California Bashing”- the “truth” about Calif is horrible enough! High tax, high DMV fees, 911 fees, high property tax, high cost of fuel, and right on down the line! Truth hurts- but it is till the truth.

    They are right-WHY SHOULD POLICE AND FIRE MAKE OVER 200K year?

    UNLIKE, most on CA, my pension is NOT CALPERS- it comes from a “private fund” which is RUN and OWNED by the Los Angeles Police/Fire Retirement- it has NOTHING REALLY do with the state.

    Like many Americans, my retirement is fine. I know that your one of those Union ‘hacks” who think you should get 90% with 20 years of service and “life time medical” at 50 years of age-BUT THAT IS NOT REALISTIC!

    Look at France and other nations- they are going down this very same road. Cutting pension bnenifits, and raising retierment ages (that’s why they are rioting!). It has to do with “debit” and Calif has what 25 MILLION! You will be lucky if Moonbeam doesn’t hike everything in the first 90 days of office-fees’ and tax hikes are coming-make no mistake!

    When you get “sick” of paying for everyone else think TEXAS! No state income tax, affordable housing, sales tax with is at 7.25%- and yes GAS AT 2.50 PER GALLON! You can keep that state- I don’t even come back to visit family!

  23. Joe Pensioner Says:

    That’s the way it is in sunny California, John. We don’t like to go backwards by getting less pay and benefits and still have the same deadly risks. That’s not the way it works. You of all people should understand that. It took us too long to get where we’re at. When the economy was fine, pensions and salaries were never a problem. Now that the economy has tanked, all the cry babies want to blame all the budget problems on State workers. If the economy was fine and everybody was making the 25% rate of return on their money and making the 7% on our CD’s like we used too……nobody would even look at pensions. They wouldn’t even be on the radar screen. The whole thing is, is that public employees have always at the bottom of the pay scale compared to the private sector. Now that people are losing their jobs, all of a sudden, people are looking at public employees while we still have our jobs. It’s all jealousy now. When and if the economy gets strong again, the spotlight will be off our pensions.

    Joe, in sunny, beautiful California

  24. NextWave Says:

    Joe Pensioner Says:
    November 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    John, I got it………….why don’t you cut all Police & Fireman’s pay to …..say $10.00 an hour and reduce their pensions to…….say $1,000 a month in retirement.

    No. Let’s start at $10 / hr and NO pension contribution from the state.

    Talk about cry babies and being afraid. Police and fireman are completely intimidated by the everyday workplace that all non-public employees must endure and that is simply competing for a job. Competing for basic food and shelter. Open up police and fire to open competition, pay for services provided. Your union, political actions and lobbying are all about reducing free market influence on your compensation.

    If this was run by private enterprise we taxpayers (YOUR EMPLOYERS) would receive services as good or better, at a lower cost and with NO pension expenses.

    I hope this pension issue becomes the next tax payer revolution. I want to see all public pension eliminated. Every individual should take responsibility for their own future. No more babying policemen, no more babying firemen. You need to learn to take some personal responsibility for your own actions. No pension, no health care in retirement. When you are done providing a service I will be done paying you. If you want those things in the future, save your own money.

    The Next Wave

  25. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    This is for Joe Pensioner. Last year Texas had 800,000 new jobs for people to work. We have 4 of the fastest growing cities in the nation- thus the 4 new seats Texas just got in Congress this up coming election cycle.

    My home in CA was 1,700 sq feet on 5 acr’s= property tax of 6,000 per year

    My home in Texas is 2,000 sq feet on 5 acr’s= property tax of 2,000 per year

    My CA DMV fees in CA for two Ford Trucks in Sept of 2009 would have been 1,250 (for one year), same trucks in Texas 300.00 (for both).

    Sales tax in CA is what? Around 8.9% and as high as 10% in come places! Texas 6.75% to 7.5% state wide.


    My health care costs are far less in Dallas Texas and BETTER than anything I had with the City of LA or Blue Cross. MY DOCTOR EVEN GAVE ME HIM CELL NUMBER INCASE I NEED IT! i NEVER HAD THAT IN CAL!

    I have no traffic or “gang” problems. Homelss people ZERO where I live!

    Calif is BROKE! No amount of “tax hikes” will fix this fact. Los Angeles has been urged to DECLARE BANKRUPTCY by the former Mayor of LA- they face a large deficit.

    Cal is “ground zero” for the housing mess- Modesto and Stockton being the center of it.

    Cal is a “classic Nanny State” where smoking “dope” nearly became a way of life- yet “pot shops” are all over in some communities. In Texas, well, we lock you up and fine you 2,000 for the first offense!

    Yes, Texas has a “death sentence” and WE USE IT-unlike the “left coast”. Need I really more???

  26. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    for the last 5 years more per google and other searches, more people are leaving the state of CA than moving to it. If you live OUTSIDE CALIF, and work for Walmart, Home Depot and other “chain stores” THEY WILL NOT TRANSFER YOU INTO CALIF due to the cost factor.

    By some accounts 800,000 people have left the state in the last few years. Hell, even the “illegals” are going home becuase the housing market tanked and they cannot get work!

    Toyota just closed that big auto factory in Freemont, CA last summer- that was a loss of 5,000 jobs in CA. The day after that plant closed, they started building a NEW PLANT in Mississippi. The CA Union hacks were livid over this this! The fact is “The Union State” of Califiornia has “priced itself” right out of the labor market and IF CHANGES are not made and made fast- CA runs the real risk of being the “rust belt of the west”.

    In Austin, major Calif “weapons” builder shut down opertations in CAL and moved it all to Texas. Why? well closer to Foot Hood, and our massive bases, and LESS ‘GRIEF’ from Texas EPA.

    The income I now have is by far better once I entered into the “private” sector. When I was “on the job” it was never about “getting rich” but the unions have made it that way it seems. They do this on the back of people who are only making on average 50,000 per year. With O/T and everything elese it is NOT UNCOMMON for FF and LEO’s to make 100K in just “pay” (then factor in the bennies and you are at 200K fast)

    I see these men and women in uniform in Texas doing ‘basiclly’ the same job I did for 25 years- they make a whole lot less- for the same risks we take. Time to be “honest” and stop bleeding the people dry.

    I have to agree, we have police officers in Los Angeles RIGHT NOW working “press relations”, “community relations” and all these “squint jobs” making 80K+ a year for doing what? I will tell you- THEY FREAK’N CLIP OUT NEWS PAPER ARTICALS AND SEND THEM TO CHIEF BECKS OFFICE~! I DID IT-I KNOW!

    I have long said, “if the public really knew what we did everyday and how much tax payer money we waist DAILY; well, they would “fire’ us all!” Sounds like in CA the “garvey train” has WRECKED and they woke up.

  27. Joe Pensioner Says:

    John, I’m not a union hack and you sound like sour grapes to me. Not CalPERS?, I can see why your so upset and pissed off at California. Also, the formula is not 20 years. The formula is (3% at age 50 for a safety retirement). If you put in 30 years by age 50, (30 x 3) = 90% of your pay. That’s the proper compensation for risking your life your entire career. A lot of bone heads don’t appreciate that……..until they have to call 911. Then it’s praise and glory. This was all approved by the California Legislature and the great Governor of our great State in 1999 (AB 400). Have fun in Teaxas and thanks for your dedicated service as a police officer for California.

  28. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Next wave, you sound extremely jealous to me.

  29. Joe Pensioner Says:

    John, John, John…………..but dude, you’re still stuck in Texas though. I bet you’ll end up moving back to our beautiful sunny State. Unless you’ve turned into a real red neck by now? I love it in California.

  30. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Next wave, don’t be mad at us because you managed to get stuck with a job at Walmart for $10. an hour with no benefits. There’s no comparison in jobs. That’s not our fault.
    You make your own footprint in life. “Success is happiness” and what you make it in life. Life is great in sunny California.

  31. SeeSaw Says:

    Jack chastizes Joe for “profane invective”, and then thinks his own comments are on the up-and-up by referring to union leaders as thugs. Working for the rights of working people, and sitting at the bargaining table for them is not thuggery. The bargaining table is the correct place for these particular workplace issues. Things should never have come to the point of ballot propositions–because, the voters are acting on the basis of emotions–they really are not aware of all the facts.

    And, Charles, I am a former muni employee-now retired for three years. Things were fine when I left, then the economic bottom fell out. My former colleagues were at work during those times, and they were absolutely not at fault for what has happened. They were not the ones out there enticing unsophisticated homeowners into sub-prime mortgages and packaging those mortgages over and over, all over the world, ultimately causing the recession.

    The foks at my former place of employment have been working on those salary and pension compromises you suggest for two years now, and they have made many. Its time to get these issues back in-house at all public entities, where they can be acted on appropriately and fairly, by those who know what to do, instead of pointing fingers at the wrong people.

  32. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    to be honest, YES- I did leave my family behind in CA. We moved 18 months ago for a “better future” and “fiscal oppertunity”.

    My grandmother lives on a fixed income and everytime those idiots raise “sales tax” she takes it in the neck! What little she has- goes right to somebody else.

    Both my parents are getting old. I REFUSE to allow them to go to some “rest home”. I have already BUILT a “guest home” on my ranch-which required only one ‘permit” for the “gas”. It over looks a 2 acr pond I just built. When the time comes, they will come to Texas also.

    I have 3 brothers-all are truck drivers. I am the ONLY retired LEO. All three of them have problems “making it” in CA. I have told them when they get sick of paying for every “dead beat” who wanders into CA- come see me in Texas! I will help you get settled in this state.

    I am not at all “bitter”. My “flight” out of CA to Texas is for the same reason as others leave. The “facts are simple” and the “math” cannot be ignored-CA IS ON THE DECLINE.

    Man, when my Tax Dollars are going to fund “midnight basketball” for gangsters, “Homeboy Baked goods”, “syringes” herion addicts, teachers are COMMUNIST (LIKE THAT ONE IN LA WE SEE ALL THE TIME!), MEDICAL POT STORES, and they rip down a “cross” in Mojave for a WWI vets- it’s time to leave!

    You can shove that “sunshine” and “palm trees”. I have never had a BRUSH FIRE at this house- I had 2 in 4 years out in CALIF!

    The LAPD has some of the best bennies and pay in the state- so what, it’s not “the best” like I said, “it was not about the money”. I am making that now-after 25 years in that stink hole! I loved the job, but all things do end-and my time ended-so I left-ONE OF THE BEST THINGS I did was get out of CA.

    I do not want my parents, and MY GRAND PARENT PAYING THIS CRAP. I understand this is for “new hires” so current people on the pay role will not be effected??? is that correct?

  33. Joe Pensioner Says:

    John in Texas,

    John, it really sounds like things didn’t end so well for you in California, especially with the LAPD. I’d love to hear the true story with you. You have a lot of anger stored up, but you’ve vented a little, which is good. I wish you well in Texas.

    Joe in sunny California

  34. SeeSaw Says:

    I have a former retired colleague that moved to Texas. Something does happen to the minds of people who leave CA for Texas. They then think it is ok to bash our President and call him all sorts of names. It must be something in the humidity there.

  35. John LAPD Retired, now a Texan Says:

    @ Joe, that’s “so california” belive it or not WE HAVE FLUSH TOLIETS IN TEXAS!

    Rednecks?? Yea, they came to Texas from “Ceres, Tracy, Sunland, Riverside, Fontana (aka; Fon-Tucky), Fresno, Bakersfield, Delano, Red Bluff, Calaveras, Sanora, Salinas, and “weed patch” California”

    No, I don’t expect to be back at all-we came back last spring and drove. Once we got to Blyth we noticed that the roads got bad and people got real rude.

    We now tell our family, you are welcome in our home anytime. We will see you in Mexico- but California has nothing to offer us. We expect to see our family from South Gate in December when we fly to Mexico.

    To fly out of DFW to LAX it takes 3 hours and cost more money. A flight from DFW to P/V, Mexico is about 1 1/2 hours and a bit less price wise. That’s becuase American Airlines has thier HQ in Dallas-oppp’s NOT CALIF

  36. Joe Pensioner Says:


    You’re taking care of your parents. I respect you for that and your police service. A lot of things you point out are true in California. I am hoping for the best. I am lucky enough I guess to live and enjoy the nicer things in California. Like you, I worked hard my whole life to earn a decent pension and benefits that some people think we don’t deserve, but I still have them and feel blessed.

    Yes, all these proposed pension changes are for “new hires” only. Existing pensions are vested and can not be touched by law. Although, there is one idiot out here that wants to tax combined pension, health benefits and Social Security income exceeding $40,000 per year. He’s gathering signatures right now, so where hoping he fails again.

    Joe in sunny California

  37. Joe Pensioner Says:


    Lighten up, take a deep breath, stop and smell the roses, enjoy life as a blessing, (even though your stuck in Texas)….ha ha. Life is too short as it is. Try to enjoy life to it’s fullest, because we don’t know how long we’re promised here. Enjoy your pension.

    Joe in sunny California

  38. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Joe, NOBODY LIKES TO GO ‘BACKWARDS” BUT IT HAPPENS! Hell, I saw my “on call court” time pay cut on one MOU, I was NEVER PAID for my “OT” it was all “time on the books” from 1984 to about 1992. At one point the damn city owed me over 1,200 hours! ALOT OF IT, I still had the day I walked out the door in April of 2008.

    Your right, when we leave CA our minds change. We see how others in this nation live, we see what their “work ethic” is, we see that all that “stuff” in CA is just that-stuff. We leave CA becuase we are sick and tired of the “crap” in that state- so we walk away. That’s what is great about this nation-don’t like what’s going on where you live-MOVE! So we did-and are better off for it.

    Studies show, of those of us who leave CA and move to other states, we leave for the same reasons, political, fiscal, and “quality of life” (not quanity of life). Once out, and away from the bias CA media and “California Mindset” we become Anti-Calif. The reason most given “we do not want our new home to become like CALIF” (That’s a BIG REASON why I voted as I did). Pelosi, had taken her CALIF Values and was shoving them down our nations neck and those idiots in DC are trying to make my home, like CALIF-which I ran from.

    I lived in Agua Dulce, out near Lancaster, CA-hot is hot-period. Yet, in CA, SoCal Edison was sticking me with a June/July bill of 800.00 per-month! In Texas, in June/July I pay about .9 cents per KWH, and my bill NEVER went any higher than 400.00 per month.

    Clearly, the state of Texas is doing “something right” and Calif is doing something wrong. This is a “right to work state”- we have “unions” but they don’t “call the shots” like they do in CA.

    Dallas, has a budget sort-fall. I expect people will be laid off. You know, I don’t see any protests, nobody running to Austin and waiving signs. Kids won’t be walking out of class- no, these people will just get new jobs.

    Feel lucky Joe, you have a job- it still pays well. Others are not as lucky as you- even some of those VET’s coming home who are QUALIFIED cannot find jobs- those men and women need them. If you hate the “pay” and “cuts” so much-step aside- some of those men and women who are coming home NEXT YEAR will be happy to take your place!

  39. upyours Says:

    BFD. It will take California a minimum of sixty years from when the first agreement is signed to see any effect, if any. Any asswipe lawmaker who didn’t understand the math behind paying some moron cop or firefighter $80,000/yr to retire at well over $100,000/yr needs his head permanently shoved up his ass ass and tossed in front of a bus. But, it’s legal. It never made me feel any safer. Too bad if a cop dies as a life is lost but my wallet has no regrets. Too bad it doesn’t happen to more “retirees,” but there is always greed and karma.

  40. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    jACK AND JOE, My career in LA ended fast- I ran into traffic on Victory Blvd chasing a 17 year old kid with a gun and was hit by a car. I broke my back- I broke it at T11 and T12. The City Retired me at that point. You really don’t wanna get me “fired up” on “healthcare”-I have seen that FIRST HAND since I retired.

    When I came to the job as a youngster, things were different. I came long before “Rodney King” and stayed long after him and all that mess. Plus alot of small “mess” along the way.

    Those youngsters who come to these jobs in the future will be fine- yea, they are gonna take a bit of a “hit” but that’s the way life is- it’s not “fair”. If it was “fair” I would look like “Brad Pitt”! The Texas Dept of Public Saftey and San Antonio PD are always hiring and they are equal to anything I have seen in CA. I would flat skip Dallas PD- they are real “J/V”. So, jobs are available-it’s just what are they willing to do for that job? I moved 350 miles for my jobin 1984.

    Where I live now, my nieghbors don’t sell dope, have loud parties, and they don’t park their damn boat in front of my house. We all waive at eachother and it is “live and let live”. Next week my ol partner flys into DFW from LA to home shop. So, clearly more CA people are on the way!

    In month I will fly to mexico for the holidays-LIFE IS GREAT in the “Lone Star State” and I can afford alot more in Texas than I ever could in CA-that’s the point of all this.

    NOBODY in Public Service was ever “guaranteed” it would always be the same pay wise. I know 911 dispatchers right now in LA who get “furloughs” yet the “sworn” are exempt from that-that’s total crap. By some accounts those being “furlough” have taken a 14% pay cut-that’s wrong. No single groups should shoulder ALL of the cost.

    The way I see it, these “pension cuts” help spread the pain around a bit. If you are active currently- then you are vested-so it has little effect on you “thus far”.

    I never did all the “crap” I was told by my Union. I took most of what I was told by LAPD as a “grain of salt”- that’s why I have done so well since I retired. I saw all those offering me advice as nothing more than “a cop” with the same education and skills I had. So, I used my OWN SKILLS to invest my own money- I HIGHLY suggest you do the same don’t trust the City, State, or Union with your hard earned money. Watch them like a hawk! Corruption in these pension areas is everywhere- look at what took place down in the OC years ago! Remember “Bernie Madhoff?” who is now in jail and all the people he ripped off!.

    DON’T DO, the dumb stuff I saw other cops and fire folks do- like buy “over priced homes” that were not worth what they paid the day they moved in. Be “frugal” and don’t buy Harley’s, boats, jet skis, lease SUV’s. Don’t have a ton of Ex-wives each with a kid or two (that means child support!)-bluntly, “whores” are less “grief” if you wanna be honest! I was real sensible and used “common sense”-which is contrary to how things are done in CA.

    I know a 30 yr old Police Officer in S. F right now- he is driving a 103,000 BMW! He just put 2,500.00 in tires on it! WTF! Now add in the “insurance” and DMV and the cost of that “ride” mind numbing! I won’t apologize for supporting voters on this issue- we have too many “examples” of why this should have been done along time ago. Like we have told Washington and Sacramento to do-STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON’T HAVE!

  41. Steven Says:

    Dear eloquent speaking “Joe Pensioner.” Would you be willing to take the pension plan you had offered to you on your first day of work.. It is the backdating of pension benefits that is driving CA bankrupt… I say cut every public employee’s income 25-35%.. this would reduce their pension benefit. There is 14% of our state would love to hide behind a tree with a radar gun or work out at the gym with your fireman radio by your side…what happens if a fire breaks out and they just ran 4 miles on the treadmill.. All teachers should be fireman.. and if a fire breaks out, close the schools.

  42. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey, check out (upyours) what a piece a shit. Another idiot loser without a pension either. More jealousy. It’s usually assholes like that, that work at Walmart or McDonalds. Just pay up asshole.

  43. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Joe, my dad is a truck driver, he took 5 years of highschool to get his diploma in the 50’s. He met my mom in the same class room I had “drivers ED” in. I have 4 uncles who live in “single wides” out near Oakdale, CA.

    My parents raised 4 boys-on a “truckers income” and my mom was a “teachers aid” at the local school.

    My 92 year old grandmother-bless her soul, RAISED 9 KIDS! ONE WAS KILLED IN WWII AND GOT THE CMH and was laid to rest in San Bruno, CA.

    When I moved to LA in 1984, I put my damn “water bed” and everything I owned into the back of a 1976 Ford Stepside pick-up and moved to LA-ALONE.

    The vast majority of people in CA are totally clueless about “hardtimes”. Times are hard all over the US- in CA, times are hard, but people had it so good for so long they are having a ruff time making it- your damn state and local goverments are totally working against you at the same time.

    I love my police and fire fighter pals- I honestly do. I pains me deeply to see them die in the line of duty for an UNGREATFUL public and scum like “upyours” who writes, “Too bad if a cop dies as a life is lost but my wallet has no regrets. Too bad it doesn’t happen to more “retirees,” but there is always greed and karma.” This person is real pond scum- but that’s why we are what we are and do/did the jobs we do.

    To both Joe and Jack, I know I come off as “harsh” and “angery” but honestly, I am not at all. I have the ablitiy to look back at 25 years of OUTSTANDING timesman in “one the job” through “riots”, “fires”, “floods” and so on- I would do it again without question. I told that today to a that young man in who wants to be LAPD-I guess he saw “Dragnet” and fell in love-LOL!

    Yet, I can see what is going on in this nation and our FED GOV is going down the same roads as CA has. We are TRILLIONS in debit! This is not all about “pensions”- man, I felt that sting when they tried to hike my DMV fees. The simple fact is, CA (and now washington DC) has been spending TAX money on worthless crap- LOOK AT PROP 136 few years ago! Tax payer money to give “junkies”” REHAB-which they fail 90% of time!

    It is the “nature” of CAL to try and be all things- to all people. We want “living wages”, “bigger cages for chickens” and so on- but it all of this has a “price”- people in CA are now finding this out sadly and with Moonbean, I fear the worst for all my family and friends stuck in that state.

    That’s why I do everything I can to tell people to get out and get out now-with your pensions and bank accounts! Sunshine and Palm Trees isnt worth what you are paying in Tax and fees.

  44. Joe Pensioner Says:


    You can be lucky you don’t see me in your rear view mirror. I’d pull you over and write your dumb ass a big ticket, mainly for being stupid. It should be illegal to be stupid like you, but there’s a lot of moron’s out there, can’t help that. Close the borders, quick.

  45. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Yea Joe, I saw his post- swell guy huh! I made a point to mention him above.

    Like I said, “we the willing, working for the UNGREATFUL, lead by the stupied, have been given NOTHING, to do the impossible!”

    I would love to “introduce” Mr “Upyours” to my “beaver tail”

    He is probably one of those “dope smoking”, “welfare collecting”, yuppies that thinks the world and state “owes him” for just breathing

  46. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey upyours & Fake dog shit,

    Be thankful that while your sleeping, there’s real people out there with real jobs protecting your dumb moron asses, and it don’t come cheap. Just pay up.

  47. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Steven, is one of those clowns you stop and he screams “you getting your quota!” I loved to look at them and say “Sir we have no ‘quota’ I can write as many as I want”. That usually pisses them off and say “well I hope you get your promotion for all your tickets”

    That was a “give me” also- to which I said, “well sir we don’t get “promotions’ for traffic cites- HOWEVER, LAST MONTH I wrote enough I got a set of new steak knives. Two more this month and I get the new blender!”

    They he says, “well I know the law!” oh really!!!? THEN WHY WERE YOU BREAKING IT?

  48. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    RIGHT ON JOE!!! I would have harsher words but it would violate the TOS of this site I fear

  49. Joe Pensioner Says:


    We should compare some of the excuses we’ve heard from people over the years for trying to get out of a traffic ticket. These people will absolutely tell you anything.

  50. Jack Taxpayer Says:

    Well “Joe Pensioner,” I have a real job, and only just got to return to this thread for a moment or two. And scanning your comments, I hope you are just some troll, and not an actual retired police officer. Because every policeman and fireman I’ve ever met has been a decent person. But if there’s many of them who actually think like you, we are in really deep trouble as a society. What unions do, Mr. “Pensioner,” is they attract and recruit the most sociopathic, marginally competent people in a workforce, and fill their already addled brains with resentment and radicalism. These are their foot soldiers – people who would be fired in a non-union environment but who know they can only survive because the union protects them. Is that you, “Joe Pensioner?” Your abusive comments are clear evidence of how well the union thugs do their job, attracting the worst elements, and turning them against productive members of society who work hard, earn their keep, and don’t need the union gangbangers to protect their turf.

  51. Jack Taxpayer Says:

    SeeSaw: Here’s what I would characterize as the words of a thug: “You can all go fuck yourself for trying to lower pensions for Public employees, especially safety related.”

    That is the first comment on this post. It wasn’t in reaction to anything except a very measured report on the outcome of pension reform elections around California. Anyone who leads off with “you can all go fuck yourself…” is a thug in my book. And God help us if anyone who talks like this ever wore a badge.

    My choice of words was not kind, but compared to the over-the-top prose I was responding to, I consider them appropriate words to use.

  52. Joe Pensioner Says:

    That’s what happens when you “shit” in front of the fan….it tends to comes right back at you. I love giving people what they deserve……shitheads like you. Be lucky I’m not in your rear view mirror asshole.

  53. Joe Pensioner Says:

    You won’t say what job you have, will you? Because it’s probably a soft seated pussy job….just like you.

  54. Joe Pensioner Says:


    If you were somewhat observant, you would notice that most people are pension bashing on this post/blog. So, that was my response to people like you and anyone else that wants to take our pensions away that we have worked hard for. You better go back and read some of the asshole remarks you started. You start it, I’ll finish it. If you don’t like it, quit shittin in front of the fan and have something smart to say.

  55. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    That’s why CalPERS is the biggest and best retirement system in the country, if not the world. CalPERS is currently earning 11.3% rate of return, where only 7.75% is needed to fund it’s liability.

    CaleTurds 10 year return from 98-08 is 2.41%, and that does NOT inclde the meltdown you GED wonder.

    It is only 46% funded and going BK.

  56. Fake SkippingDog Says:

    So, that was my response to people like you and anyone else that wants to take our pensions away that we have worked hard for.
    Once again GED wonder, you did NOT work for your pension, they were GIFTED retroactively.

  57. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    If the economy was fine and everybody was making the 25% rate of return on their money and making the 7% on our CD’s like we used too……nobody would even look at pensions
    You moron, no one makes 25% ROI, NO ONE, and there are PLENTY of GED and HS grads that could do YOUR GED job, tens of thousands!

    Get a grip you mindless wonder.

  58. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    oe Pensioner Says:

    November 4, 2010 at 8:39 pm
    John, I’m not a union hack and you sound like sour grapes to me. Not CalPERS?, I can see why your so upset and pissed off at California. Also, the formula is not 20 years. The formula is (3% at age 50 for a safety retirement). If you put in 30 years by age 50, (30 x 3) = 90% of your pay. That’s the proper compensation for risking your life your entire career.

    Hhahahahaa…the GED “hero” is pulling the old “we risk our life” line again!!!!

    You dont risk anything, you turn around and run for backup at the first sign of trouble, get a clue “hero”.

    Hey, I have your starring role again right here;

  59. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    You won’t say what job you have, will you? Because it’s probably a soft seated pussy job….just like you.

    Hahahah..and you would be running the opposite direction faster then the Road Runner if you said that to anyone besides your boyfried.

    Another internet warrior! Hahahahhaahhh….

  60. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    Next wave, don’t be mad at us because you managed to get stuck with a job at Walmart for $10. an hour with no benefits. There’s no comparison in jobs. That’s not our fault.
    Hey GED wonder, if you didn’t have your gov “workfare” you would be at the soup kitchen b/c you don’t have the brain power to work at Walmart or anywhere else.

  61. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    Joe Pensioner Says:

    If you were somewhat observant, you would notice that most people are pension bashing on this post/blog. So, that was my response to people like you and anyone else that wants to take our pensions away that we have worked hard for. You better go back and read some of the asshole remarks you started. You start it, I’ll finish it.
    Good thing for you that you’re hiding behind your keyboard GED boy, otherwise you would be picking your front teeth up off the ground……

  62. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Big talk dog shit. I think I can handle dirt bags like you. I’d have you submitted with a rear naked choke hold before you could get off a fart and spit blood.

  63. Joe Pensioner Says:

    I did’nt work at Walmart and Burger King like you losers. If CalPERS falls short on it’s investments, you’ll have to make up the difference “dog shit”…………sorry.

  64. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Fake and skip…….. the 2 dog shits. You make a good pair. Another case of extreme jealousy. I hear it all the time. Losers that have not done well for themselves over the years. It’s tough to hear about pensions when you don’t have one and your investments have gone down the toilet. I didn’t mean to rub it in and make you feel bad………gee, I feel terrible now. The ones that don’t have pensions usually react that way. Imagine, 3% at age 50 with 90% of your pay. Thanks to the good old Calif. Legislators & Governor. The only thing I miss is not taking assholes like you into custody.

  65. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey Rex the “dog shit” wonder, That’s what I thought, I didn’t hear you mention the kind of work your in. A pussy job like I told you. Tough talk when you know you don’t have to back it up through the computer. That’s okay, I’ll look up your email address domain & see where your at and the URL assignment (that means your address buddy). We’ll go from there. I’ll show you a few UFC moves, since you like to abbreviate words. I can explain to you what UFC stands for.

  66. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey rex “the dog shit” wonder,

    That’s a pretty funny video. I was crackin up. Inaccurate, but still funny. A retard like you couldn’t be convinced about the truth, so I won’t bother. I’d rather call you a retard. You must be real angry for not having a pension, because that probably took up a lot of your useless time to put that video together. That’s really a classic example of a sorry ass like you on the outside, looking in, as the old saying goes. Did you flunk the civil service exam or what? Too fat to be a police officer or firefighter? or what. If you were successful in the private sector, you would never have responded like that. I think I really hit a nerve here.

  67. SeeSaw Says:

    Nextwave: It is just a fact, that most working people would never be able to save enough money in the course of their working careers, to provide for all their needs after retirement, without a pension that is a benefit, set up and paid for, during their careers. At my public muni, we had the 457 plan, to supplement our DB pension plan. I saved in the 457 religiously–if that were all I had to rely on in retirement, I would be part of a poverty demographic. Everyone who spends a lifetime working should have a pension, public and private alike. The crime that is being perpetrated on the American workers, now, in the private sector, is the downgrading of previous full-time jobs to part-time, with no pension benefits. That is what needs to be changed. Focus on that, and leave the public sector alone!

  68. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    @ REX The dog, well, bitter or not, I am not the one suck in that state. That Corrupt two term Mayor of LA- Tony V was cry’n yesterday in the LA Times about how TUE’s vote is going to harmful to your beloved sunny state. He was basically saying that TUE when AMERICA spoke loudly and threw out many of the bums they cut LA and California’s fiscal throat.

    You really should look at the NEW map of America- it is “BLOOD RED”. Not since before FDR has American seen such a response from voters like they got on TUE. True enough we did not throw out Ried, and Boxer- but WE DID GET 63 NEW CONSERVATIVE SEATS in Congress. The “socail progressives” damn near lost the Senate- Reid and the crazy Boxer svaed that-for now.

    America is demanding Washington change their spending habits and get rid of BIG GOV- all excpet for CALIF.

    Rex, I don’t have to “lie” the “truth” is wonderful! That’s why I moved from CA to Texas!

    I am not at all “jealous” (ahh I left you and the state remember!) I am DAMN HAPPY I LEFT-and I do love to “gloat” a bit! I lived in CA from birth to age 47. I was flat LIED too by the POLICE UNION, The Teachers, The Tree Huggers, and everybody else in the Peoples Republic of California. I was sucked into believing (like so many people are) “I have to pay more to live in California which is the best state in the union”.

    I hate being lied to. I hate being “ripped off”. If the government rips you off, or some idiot rips you off- it’s all the same to me, and I get ticked off. So, that’s why I love it when CA gets the big bone! Maybe when you get sick of being screwed over by all those “special interest groups” you will do something about that SUNNY state you are so fond of. Until then just be ready to pay BIG BUCKS and have your “stay-cation”.

    When I began home searching outside CA- I discovered that I had been lied to- a lot. I saw the REAL cost of “government services”. When I began “crunching” my house budget numbers back in 2006, I saw how much of my income was going to just TAX! That’s sales tax, income tax, property, DMV fees, YOU NAME IT! I spoke to lots of other retired coppers and FD guys who fled CA, and did my homework. I saw that you don’t need big tax and big government to make a state run effective. I saw in America-I can live anyplace I want- I wanted Texas-not CALIF! If I want beaches and sunshine- I go to Florida not Santa Monica or Santa Cruz.

    I saw that I can have the same or BETTER life, in another state, where you don’t have to lock everything down, just to get a carton of milk. Texas my loved ones can all carry concealed handgun once they go to the 8 hour class- can you or your family do that in your beloved state-HELL NO THAT CAN’T! Last night a guy in Dallas killed a “car jacker” OUTSTANDING-give the man a medal! In Cal, you can bet he would be hauled into civil court-NOT TEXAS!

    I HAVE NOW been able to talk with people in other states and get “honest responses” on “WHY” THEY HATE CALIFORNIA.

    Words like “spoiled”, “arrogant”, “narcissistic”, “over paid”, and “out of touch with mainstream America” are used. I have to agree with those assessments after living in CA for 47 years. Look on Google for two articles which compare California to Texas. Use the search words “California vs Texas”-you will SEE exactly why people from California are flocking to Texas. The truth hurts.

    Stand By REX, your “hard times” aint over for you and the other 35 million people in CA- they are probably gonna get much worse with Moonbeam in control and the rest
    of America demanding Washington DC stop spending= NO MORE HANDOUTS for CA! The Mayor of LA knows this and that’s why is is crying now just two days after the election.

    In 10 years, (the project IS underway) West Texas, will be the home to the largest “wind” farms in the USA- it’s going in with the idea Texas will sell the power to CALIF via the electrical grid-AT WHAT EVER WE CAN GET. Arizona and Nevada are doing the same. Los Angeles, already gets 21% of their power from COAL power plants in AZ-so who is getting screwed? You are and all those who live on the left coast- and people in other states don’t feel bad at all about it! What are you paying for gas? I just paid 2.50 per gallon! The “extra money” you are paying comes right to Texas and builds our schools and maintains our roads!

    The fact is, Calif is a “jacked up” state. With Moonbeam in office, a new “simple majority” to pass a budget-well, the idiot voters just give those hacks a “blank check” to spend away. You better hope you have enough tax money to cover those checks they are gonna be writing- otherwise be ready for an IOU. The Washington ATM is about to be put out of service at the demands of the other states and people like me-if you are not scared now with your states crippled economy- you are beyond hope! I got out while I could with my wallet and bank accounts- I was “realistic” about the state.

    Rex, PLEASE run down and fill up your Pius- us dumb “hicks” out in red state Texas, who have all your energy needs to builds us some a news high schools! Thanks for helping The Lone Star state economy every time you flip on your home A/C or pull up to the gas pumps!

  69. John LAPD RETIRED now a Texan Says:

    Rex, I IN NOT IN anyway bashing my peers in the police/fire or some of those in CaPers- like to think I am being “realistic” and this change did need to happen.

    It is clear, that those “on the job” now will not be hurt by what took place on Tue. In the long run, it will be you and your kids who come to those jobs- but, that “aint our problem”.

    These new hires, who are in College and Highschool and love this libral president and put him into office will pay the price. Those younger folks in college, who always have all the answers to lifes problems and now coming out of college 50,000 IN DEBIT-they will get the “change” they voted for. AINT MY PROBLEM- IT’S THEIRS AND YOURS!

    You Mr California resident will suffer also. Why would ANYONE want to work in these jobs when they can work for Micro-soft and make more money? The simple reason is “dedication” to humanity. Yet, that type of person is hard to find these days- LAPD was paying a “signing bounus” for people to join- NOT ANYMORE!

    As tax goes up, and their pay declines. As they leave college in debit and TRY and find jobs- they look at the PD’s and FD’s and realize that IF THEY STAY in Cal and work they cannot live and feed families in these jobs-so like companies, they will leave to other states.

    JUST LIKE YOUR JOBS ARE DOING RIGHT NOW- No jobs= broke and welfare state. No cops= deadly streets. No fire fighters= your crap burns when the Santa Anna’s blow. Basiclly, it sucks to be you and your kids who are stuck in that mess

  70. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    I’ll show you a few UFC moves, since you like to abbreviate words. I can explain to you what UFC stands for.

    hahahahaha….OK UFC tough guy, easy to say for the GED wonder to say at home hiding.

  71. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hiding….”dog shit” ?. not me. I’m right here in Woodland Hills, So. CA. Meet me in the Starbucks parking lot sat. morning at 9:00 am at Dunmire & Coolidge, if you know the area. I go there almost every morning for coffee. I’ll be waiting for you. You can’t miss me. I’m 6’3″, 260 lbs. bald, with a black mustache. I’ll be driving a black dodge ram 4 x4 pick up. Picture in your head a retired cop that still works out and is in pretty good shape. We can discuss your attitude and make adjustments very quickly, if necessary. PS: Be sure your carrying your medical card & emergency contacts. ………..Joe

  72. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    You can’t miss me. I’m 6’3″, 260 lbs. of pure fat with a belly bigger than Robert Rizzo, bald, with a black mustache.
    Hey Fatty, bring it on, I am in Santa Monica, on Main Street and 2nd, go to the Starbucks there Saturday morning at 9AM, I am 6’5, 300# and will knock you back into last week.

    Picture your fat butt laid out on the ground seeing little birdies.

    PS, make sure your medical insurance is paid up fatty.


  73. Jack Taxpayer Says:

    Joe Pensioner: If you are willing to be so transparent – will you be kind enough to disclose what police dept. you used to work for? They will hopefully be interested in having a discussion with you about the damage you are doing to their image through your profanity and your physical threats. Your conduct is disgraceful. It saddens me that anyone like you ever worked in law enforcement.

  74. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey dog shit,

    How original, repeating everything I already said. I’ll be waiting for you. There will be no more talking. I’ll see if you show up. You whiners and bashers will get what you deserve……both of you. Bring jack-off with you.

  75. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Hey jack-off. Make sure you show up with dog shit. It will be fun to teach you both a little lesson on pensions…..after you come to.

  76. Fake SkippingDog Says:

    Like I said, show up wimp, and make sure that health insurance is PAID UP, I am going to knock oyu out for the 10 count fatty, maybe that will motivate you to hit the gym and lose some of those rolls around your fat belly from all those donut runs you made.

  77. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Both of you numnut pencil necks should keep your mouths shut about pensions if you don’t want to be treated like that.

  78. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    Hey Dumbo-if your GED brain hasn’t figured it out yet, they are one and the same.

    But when you have the brain power of a 5th grader that makes it tough I guess. Make sure you cell phone is preset for 911 Saturday morning, so that ambulance gets there ASAP to get you some care.

  79. Joe Pensioner Says:

    You “dog shits” have just 17 hours & 23 minutes. Make sure you both show up.

  80. Jack Taxpayer Says:

    Joe Pensioner: I have no intention of getting into a physical showdown with you, nor to threaten you, nor to use language stronger than “thug,” which unfortunately is an accurate description of your conduct.

    If you are willing to actually identify yourself, however, I will be happy to forward to the authorities your information. I’m tempted to have a conversation with Ed Mendel about you and determine why he allows you to continue posting, and why he hasn’t contacted law enforcement.

    As a highly compensated professional, it is your duty to behave in a responsible manner, not use the F word, or threaten people, even if that’s what they do. If policemen were actually underpaid, and they’re certainly not underpaid anymore, and haven’t been for a very long time, maybe you could rationalize your behavior. But as it is, you are suggesting to us all, those of us who pay your pensions via our taxes, yet have nothing remotely comparable to fall back on ourselves, that you are all a pack of murderous, vicious, bullies, armed to the teeth and ready to annihilate your enemies. Is that the image of law enforcement you hope to convey? Is that the America you want? It’s not the America I want.

    Believe it or not, Joe Pensioner, I have worked just as hard as you, I’ve been very responsible, I’m not in debt, I pay my taxes, and I never agreed to any of this pension nonsense. How can you possibly think you’re entitled to getting paid almost as much when you’re retired (if not more) than when you worked? Do you think the rest of us had anything to do with the stock market crash? CalPERS hasn’t beaten the market. They lost just as much as most 401K’s lost. But you seem to think it’s ok for taxpayers to lose their investment assets AND pay more in taxes to make up for your pension funds loss of assets. That isn’t anything I agreed to. It’s something your union forced down the throats of politicians because your unions, using taxpayer money, buy our elections.

    Apparently you are afraid to reason with anyone about this, and instead you terrorize people who post anything that might support pension reform. You are deliberately intimidating people. I’m certainly intimidated. I have no interest in pissing off 6’3″ ex-cops who work out all the time and carry around a lot of anger. And I resent the fact that I live in a country where law-enforcement has this much influence in politics. This is supposed to happen in Police States, not in the USA. I will work to reform this system, and I hope I can exercise my democratic right to do that without ever having to cross paths with anyone who indulges in behavior as thuggish as yours. You should seriously think about what you’re doing.

  81. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Okay Jack, your forgiven. I accept your apology. You’re off the hook tomorrow. You don’t have to show up with dog shit afterall.

  82. Says:

    To all who are currently dialoging on this CalPension blog:

    THIS IS A WARNING: and a reminder that this blog is intended and reserved for appropriate dialog pertaining to California Pensions only. Several conversations have been deemed as inappropriate. If this persists, you will be contacted by your non-published email and or your carrier administrator notified. Thank you. Please enjoy this blog as intended.

    Service Administrator

  83. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Oh Oh, Jack squealed on everybody !!!….everybody’s real quiet now. Nobody wants to get in trouble. You can definitely hear a pin drop now. Even “dog shit” is quiet.

    PS: I’ll still be waiting for you tomorrow morning.

  84. Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    Don’t be late fatty, I need to to beat my fist up with your nose.

  85. Fake SkippingDog Says:

    Opps…..did not see the warning.

  86. Anita Butera Says:

    I think unions do a huge disservice to their members- they seem to spend most of their efforts telling members how they are being wronged and that they are entitled to benefits and pensions that no one else gets any more. How else would they justify their fees?

    Entitlement is a terrible disease. Anyone with any basic grasp of economics will tell you that NONE OF THIS IS SUSTAINABLE. The money will run out and those that are counting on it will be in a very bad way – with limited skills and no money. Do for yourself- don’t expect others to do for you. Not everyone drawing these pensions “risked their lives.” Most of them are pencil-pushers. It makes me sick to my stomach when I see the annual report of those in my county drawing more than $200k a year in pensions- starting at age 50. Many people will likely live to be at least 100- again, do the math – drawing a pension for 50 years when they worked for 20, 25 years? IT MAKES NO SENSE! The only answer is for taxes to go up – forcing us into European-level tax rates. Europe is failing across the board- we should take serious note of that.

  87. SeeSaw Says:

    Anita..If you know a rank and file, public employee, union member who retired at the age of 50 with $200,000/yr., please notify the Guiness people. I worked at a muni for 40 years, and never saw one of those.

  88. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Just got back from Starbucks in Woodland Hills and just like I figured….dog s___ didn’t show up. All talk, but doesn’t back it up. Lucky for him anyway.

  89. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Typical hysteria. The average CalPERS pension is only around $26,000 a year. Only about 1% of retirees have these big pensions and they were city managers, fire chiefs…etc…

  90. Joe Pensioner Says:

    Anita, your only jealous because you don’t have a pension, like all the other cry babies, like dog s____ there. When you greedy private sector people were making money hand over fist before the stock market crash, you looked down on us poor old public servants, as working for peanuts. Now, it’s becoming more balanced and the shoe’s kind of on the other foot right now.

    Why don’t you complain to your Legislature in Sacramento and the new Governor (even though Jerry has a defined pension of $149,000 a year when he retires). I’m sure he’ll understand.

  91. Joe Pensioner Says:

    rex the dog s____ …….woof woof woof, where you at? Sent to the dog house twice now !!! Where were you this morning ?…………another no show. Lucky for you. Come on out, I’ll be nice…..woof woof woof….. I won’t harass and humiliate you anymore, I promise. We have to play nice or the service administrator will scold you again.

    the enforcer

  92. Ex-Union Guy Says:

    I lived in Ohio and Michigan before all the good jobs went away. When the Union auto, steel, and rubber workers so braveley told the “big Companies” to go and
    %( *$X@ themselves. They said this in the 70’s and 80’s and then started to see the jobs dissapear because an unsustainable (key word here) had been created based on the greed(key word) of the workers …and the ingnorance (key word) of the company. All parties searching for quick fixes and big wins for their constituents.
    Even been to Ohio or Michigan lately? All of the jobs are gone…they all went south, or east, or west because no one would pay what the Unions had “earned”. Now…they earned themselves unemployment and $7.50 jobs as pizza delivery guys.
    The same thing is happening here. Smart negotiators “earned” their Uniions great penions and benefits (I would hardly call them public servants). So “greedy unions” and “ignorant” politicians pay heed. If no one can finds an intelligent (key word) middle ground where people get less, and the public pays a little more…you will be like your comrades in Ohio and Michigan…wondering what happened to all the great pensions that we worked so hard for?

  93. My 401K ran away Says:

    The United States is at the point where the very rich, the very poor and government employees/pensioners are riding the gravy train while the evaporating middle-class that pays the vast bulk of taxes is on life-support and left at the station without a ride. State coffers are deep in the red and the impending trainwreck is going to be ugly.

  94. Facebook’tan para kazanmak Says:

    “Hey jack-off. Make sure you show up with dog shit. It will be fun to teach you both a little lesson on pensions…..after you come to.”

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